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Thread: New to me 1903A1

  1. #11
    Administrator 9th's Avatar
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    Re: New to me 1903A1

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
    Nice Remington 03, no "C" stock no a1.
    The 1903A1 was the result of several refinements to the original Model 1903. These included a bolt handle bent rearward for easier handling, a corrugated trigger and a pistol grip stock.
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  3. #12
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    Re: New to me 1903A1

    9th, I do cast 150 grain projectiles and use Unique to push them down range. Lots easier on the shoulder!

    Phil, I am away from my books but think that this one is in the A1 range? It has been fitted with a 6 groove High Standard barrel and the straight wrist stock. I have the C stock on my other A1, but it needs some work. Anyways, to me this is a shooter not a collector.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Now I'm more confused! This from the Milsurp forum...........

    Rick the Librarian
    03-11-2010, 12:04 PM
    I'll respectfully disagree with Chuck on this - the definition of a M1903A1 with a Type C stock or scant stock installed as part of an overhaul or on new-produced M1903s makes it a M1903A1 - not by a civilian owner. But Chuck and I have had this disagreement before and we've "agreed to disagree".

    Getting back to your original question, there are a couple of authors that state that Remington produced "M1903A1s" - I know Poyer is one and possibly Sharpe's book on rifles in America.

    **NO** Remington M1903 was manufactured with a Type C stock as "original equipment". All used "straight" stocks. Although the "standard" for U.S. military rifles was the Type C-kind of stock, Remington was given "dispensation" to use straight stocks. IIRC, this may be the origin of the term "M1903 (Modified)" to describe Remington M1903s.

    Type C stocks were used on new-production Remington M1903A4 sniper rifles, but that was a different "beast".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ugh! Wasting way too much time on this! From the Firing Line Forum:

    https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho....php?p=1279855


    A little background...
    The M1903 was initially designed for the .30-03. In 1906, it was changed to the .30-06 cartridge. This rifle saw service through WWI-1920's.

    In 1928 the M1903A1 was adopted. This had a "type C" pistol grip stock, checkered butt plate and serrated trigger.

    In 1936, the military formally adopted the M1 Garand as their primary rifle. When WWII started approaching, there were not enough Garands available. The military pulled all of the 03's from the armory and there was not enough of these around either.

    The Springfield Armory was busy making Garands. The Rock Island Armory no longer made 03's either. Remington received a government contract to build M1903 rifles. They moved the production tooling from Rock Island Armory to their plant and began producing 03's.

    The first of these 03's were made exactly like the ones from Springfield or Rock Island. There were essentially clones of the M1903A1.

    As demand continued to increase, Remington made a few changes to make the rifle easier to produce. Remington began to implement these changes in December 1941. This was not a complete, instantaneous changeover, but a gradual process.

    In March 1942, all of the changes had been completed so they designated the rifles made from March '42 to May '42 as M1903 (modified).

    In May 1942, a few more changes were incorporated and the rifle was again redesignated as the M1903A3. Smith & Corona Typewriter Company also contracted to make these.

    The early production Remingtons could be considered A1's since they were exact duplicates but were not stamped that way. When Remington began to change features, they would no longer be the same as A1's. When Remington completed simplifying the process, they would be considered modifieds until the A3 came out.

    Edited to correct lousy spelling.

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  5. #13
    Squad Leader Sweeney's Avatar
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    Re: New to me 1903A1

    For the sights, contact Bill Bentz (do a google search)... He makes very nice reproduction Marine Corps sights for the 03 and 03A3. They have a larger peep and a taller, wider front blade. These bring the battle zero in to 250yds If I recall. I think he is also making the front sight hoods as well.

    Front blade on my 03 from Bill;

  6. #14
    Designated Marksman Phil McGrath's Avatar
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    Re: New to me 1903A1

    Quote Originally Posted by 9th View Post
    The 1903A1 was the result of several refinements to the original Model 1903. These included a bolt handle bent rearward for easier handling, a corrugated trigger and a pistol grip stock.

    Ahhh, how's that? The hard core 03a1 snobs are of the opinion that only Springfield's above the 1.46 serial number range and left SA with a "C" stock are legit 03a1s. The Army took the position that any 03 in a "C" stock was now a 03a1. This is the first I've heard about common serrated triggers and bent bolts being unique too A1's of witch there not. Maybe you have confused 03-03A1 with the simpler 03A3.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mercman View Post
    9th, I do cast 150 grain projectiles and use Unique to push them down range. Lots easier on the shoulder!

    Phil, I am away from my books but think that this one is in the A1 range? It has been fitted with a 6 groove High Standard barrel and the straight wrist stock. I have the C stock on my other A1, but it needs some work. Anyways, to me this is a shooter not a collector.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Now I'm more confused! This from the Milsurp forum...........

    Rick the Librarian
    03-11-2010, 12:04 PM
    I'll respectfully disagree with Chuck on this - the definition of a M1903A1 with a Type C stock or scant stock installed as part of an overhaul or on new-produced M1903s makes it a M1903A1 - not by a civilian owner. But Chuck and I have had this disagreement before and we've "agreed to disagree".

    Getting back to your original question, there are a couple of authors that state that Remington produced "M1903A1s" - I know Poyer is one and possibly Sharpe's book on rifles in America.

    **NO** Remington M1903 was manufactured with a Type C stock as "original equipment". All used "straight" stocks. Although the "standard" for U.S. military rifles was the Type C-kind of stock, Remington was given "dispensation" to use straight stocks. IIRC, this may be the origin of the term "M1903 (Modified)" to describe Remington M1903s.

    Type C stocks were used on new-production Remington M1903A4 sniper rifles, but that was a different "beast".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ugh! Wasting way too much time on this! From the Firing Line Forum:

    https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho....php?p=1279855


    A little background...
    The M1903 was initially designed for the .30-03. In 1906, it was changed to the .30-06 cartridge. This rifle saw service through WWI-1920's.

    In 1928 the M1903A1 was adopted. This had a "type C" pistol grip stock, checkered butt plate and serrated trigger.

    In 1936, the military formally adopted the M1 Garand as their primary rifle. When WWII started approaching, there were not enough Garands available. The military pulled all of the 03's from the armory and there was not enough of these around either.

    The Springfield Armory was busy making Garands. The Rock Island Armory no longer made 03's either. Remington received a government contract to build M1903 rifles. They moved the production tooling from Rock Island Armory to their plant and began producing 03's.

    The first of these 03's were made exactly like the ones from Springfield or Rock Island. There were essentially clones of the M1903A1.

    As demand continued to increase, Remington made a few changes to make the rifle easier to produce. Remington began to implement these changes in December 1941. This was not a complete, instantaneous changeover, but a gradual process.

    In March 1942, all of the changes had been completed so they designated the rifles made from March '42 to May '42 as M1903 (modified).

    In May 1942, a few more changes were incorporated and the rifle was again redesignated as the M1903A3. Smith & Corona Typewriter Company also contracted to make these.

    The early production Remingtons could be considered A1's since they were exact duplicates but were not stamped that way. When Remington began to change features, they would no longer be the same as A1's. When Remington completed simplifying the process, they would be considered modifieds until the A3 came out.

    Edited to correct lousy spelling.
    What defines a 03A1, its the use of the "C" stock. From the beginning Remington started with straight GG stocks on the early production, the GG were later dropped and straight stock became the std. norm. Had Remington used a "C" during the 03 production then they could claim it 03A1 rifle, but they didn't use "C" stocks until 03a3 production was well underway and then a scope was installed and it then became a 03a4 Sniper.

    Double check you HS barrel, I bet its a 4gr., 6gr barrels were made by HS and were marked SC as HS was the OE barrel supplier for Smith Corona and they were all used during early SC 03a3 production.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweeney View Post
    For the sights, contact Bill Bentz (do a google search)... He makes very nice reproduction Marine Corps sights for the 03 and 03A3. They have a larger peep and a taller, wider front blade. These bring the battle zero in to 250yds If I recall. I think he is also making the front sight hoods as well.
    Your close its, 200yds.

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  8. #15
    Squad Leader Sweeney's Avatar
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    Re: New to me 1903A1

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McGrath View Post
    Your close its, 200yds.
    Hey...what's 50yds between friends...

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