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Thread: BM59 Build

  1. #11
    Designated Marksman Douglas Haig's Avatar
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    Re: BM59 Build

    pitahn What’s a Tipo2?

  2. #12
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    Re: BM59 Build

    Italian BM-59's and Italian Garands are separated by series by calling them Modelo or Tipo and a number.

    BM-59 Tipo 1 is what most people call BM-59E, basically a M1 Rifle cut down 1/2" and capable of box magazine use.

    There is a transition to Mark I - Mark IV naming.

    Mark I was the 17.xxx barrel with the rubber buttpad with hidey hole, and the rarest piece in all of BM59 world: a flash hider(not tri-comp) that could be unscrewed and an M-14 like suppressor installed

    between these different iterations of the the folder is really introduced.

    Mk II has the same features as MkI(Mark I) except it now has the Tri-Comp

    in between here: a folder for jump troops(para's) was utilized

    Mk III able with hidey-hold cut down stock or folder(with triangle brace) and it had the flash hider back. This iteration of the flash hider is compatible with a Halbeck like device that can shoot grenades as well as accept a silencer. End of Mk III production first true quick change tri-comp is introduced. Also the final version of the flash hider is done and it is encased- it is similar to the device- I think it is called a moderator that came on the short M-16 type rifle used in Vietnam by Special Forces but because it lowers decibels ATF considers them as a type of Suppressor. If anyone knows what I am talking about, or can confirm the XM's had a device called a moderator, let me know. The BM-59 MK III "moderator" was made by adding pieces to the flash suppressor and an "encasing"

    Mk IV is the "Nigerian"- we shared the prints of the E2 stock, in its unfinished form. Two versions were made of their "E2"- 1 has a cheap Garand style metal pad and 1 uses the rubber buttpad with hidey hole. They used the folder's plastic POS almost bakelite grip(it's better than bakelite but only just slightly).

    The first BM-59s' made into TIPO I aka Modelo 1 aka Tipo 1 via Italian Organization ARAR, who handled ALL Mil-Surp dispositioning. Beretta cut down approximately 125k rifles given by ARAR and US Govt to make the MkI- they cut them at the chamber to make them .308 and they cut the muzzle area to use a brake.

    ARAR was used as the clearing house for disposition of mil-surp in Italy because of fears of 'Ndrangheta and La Cosa Nostra would have free run of the weapons and all hell would break loose. They did get ahold of some 9mm stuff, but ARAR of Italy postwar came out to see what you were doing. Ferrucio Lamborghini was requisitioning parts of crawlers and final drives and they thought "This asshole is putting us on." - sure enough Lamborghini made tractors and crawlers from the post war aggregation of mil-surp parts.

    Beretta did so well with what they were given, the US gave them access to the M1 Garand prints. Their Garands also have a Tipo 1 and some 2, and there was a 3 which are sometimes called Mk 1,2, 3 or Modelo 1, 2, 3. BM-59 have the same shared naming structure. The license for Garand receiver production opened up the BM-59 wide open.

    The "E" eventually became the name for the conversion done where they'd cut down the chamber and barrel and the op-rod and make it mag-fed- if the US approved the changes on loan/lease or if you purchased Garands offered grey/black market.

    1960-1967 is where you see the majority of Modelo1 or "E"-type barrels produced- by date code. They ran some in 1974. There were some run for Bob Reese when he first bought the rights.

    BM-62 had a fake brake. BM-69 had a real brake. Modelo 62 and 69 CANNOT accept the tri-comp or any "military" accessories- no FA parts, no tri-comp of any type.

    BM-59 Tipo 2 aka Mk II aka Modelo 2 is where the 17.xxx inch barrel with TRI-COMP is introduced and it is scallopped with 5 rings where the od of the barrel changes with those rings such that when the tri-comp was finished- the Tri-Comp could be introduced. The scalloping was for two purposes to build up gas when he original Flash Hider was used with a grenade launcher, but they also noticed that the muzzle of the barrel was not eroded as badly over time in testing.

    The Mk IV aka Nigerian was available in 17.xxx barrel and a roughly 19" barrel- both were scalloped and can use the tri-comp or flash hider. That 19" barrel has never been reproduced over here and none were brought in so far as any records go- not by Berben or Benet or John Arnold or anyone else.

    The Belgian Congo got the Nigerian Models after the Biafra Communists were eliminated.

    Pindad of Indonesia licensed the BM-59 and just called it a SP-1. It shows up in Malasyia and Phillipines and Oceania.

    The true flash hider is rarest because according to long time collectors at Knob Creek MG Shoot: ATF declared it to be same as a moderator and thus a suppressor- same way moderator is treated on the XM short M-16's, it is most likely the case that John Arnold submitted one to ATF with all the moderator pieces intact and he may have "caused a letter". Really no one knows. At the Knob Creek shoot, I went 8 years in my 20's and early 30's and saw BM-59's including ones created by SOT's as post-86 MG's. There were three collectors that had them all, including one who melted down his GSA Sante Fe M59 Scout barrel, the barrel was made with parts combined from the demil barrels of 1903A4 and Garand- he had a M59 Trooper he had legally converted before Hughes Amendment of 86 was introduced.
    Last edited by geardoc; 26th October 2020 at 01:17 PM.

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  4. #13
    Platoon Sgt NMC_EXP's Avatar
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    Re: BM59 Build

    Looks like James River Armory produced some BM59 copies and MidwayUSA sold them.

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020685970
    “After all is said and done, successful rifle shooting on the range is nothing more than first finding a rifle and lot of ammunition which will do precisely the same thing shot after shot, and then developing the same skill in the rifleman.” ~ Capt. E. C. Crossman (The Book of the Springfield)

  5. #14
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    Re: BM59 Build

    At least one Armory of Beretta firearms(World's Oldest Continually Operated Business) that is in Italy has a researcher who says that the story that "Beretta developed a rifle in 6 months to meet NATO requirement" is a myth. According to him, as the USA had selected T44 as the M14, the Winchester Prototype Box Mag Garand's drawings were shared with Beretta. What Beretta did in 6 months was the fixtures to reduce the caliber to 7.62x51 Nato from 7.62x63(30-.06) at the chamber end and make the magazine. Doing that alone is impressive in 6 months. But more than likely based on what I have accumulated on the Winchester Box Magazine Garand Proposal- Beretta's BM-59 was a production version of that rifle rather than a 100% Beretta Artifice.

    The company known as JRA had some cast receivers made and they bought the same surplus kits as everyone else to build their rifles. The only leg up JRA had over home builders was that they were able to contract with an excellent barrel maker. They had a number of issues with their cast receiver that made some imperfect but not to a point they were unusable, contrary to popular belief, BULA Defense Systems HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE JRA BM-59 receiver.

    JRA's BM59 was only a limited run of around 500-1000 units. 500 was minimum # of barrels, price break at 1000. They used a top of the line barrel maker, not the company that SARCO and Standard Parts used(Citadel).

    JRA BM59 was only ever sold through Classic Firearms in NC(who can go sh#t up a tree and wipe on a pine seedling). When their exclusivity agreement was over, they let Midway, Atlantic, and others put the BM59 up- BUT THE ONLY RETAILER WHO SOLD BM59's WAS CLASSIC FIREARMS. NOTE: There were JRA BM-59 receivers that JRA sent back to the company who was casting and machining them, that foundry/machine shop sold JRA BM59 receivers as "blemished" units to SARCO- there was legal huffing and puffing and SARCO and JRA sent out a recall and if anyone listened, JRA had the receivers recalled destroyed and they gave you a price credit on a complete rifle from Classic at first, and when people complained, they did send out a few perfect receivers but they are serialized differently. If you ask JRA they will say anything they ever built "Oh we intend to build those again. Just wait." Well if you ever wait on a JRA Forged Rock-ola receiver or a BM-59, send me your address, as I'll be able to come in and clear the cobwebs off your skeleton, find the keys to your reloading room, and tote out your gun safes- because if you wait on JRA to do another run of BM59's or Rock-ola's- it ain't gonna happen.

    The kit market in Europe has gone to hell in a handbasket and trying to get kits is a nightmare even with ITAR License via Dept of State. Also kits are going to be demilled more and more per EU Legislation. As most of the kits are in Portugal, Spain, Italy, Germany, and some former Com Bloc states- they are not easy to come by and the more legislation passes, the less they will be available. Basically what's in the US now is all that's ever going to be here, IN MY JADED OPINION.

    Unless you can read the receiver prints online or from Sarco and make one yourself from a commercial or USGI Garand receiver, the only way to get a BM-59 receiver is to have Tim Shuffin make one.

    The magazines are hard to get but while there aren't as many mags as for the M-14 that are USGI, the BM-59 had far more mags than almost anyone ever realized. The Italian Para's had one mag in the folder MK2/Mk3 and a spare on their belt or chest. All other users had 1 in gun and 3 or 4 in "bandoliers" for chest or belt. The BM-59 was made until 1990, support parts were made 100% until 1997, the absolute last parts per Beretta's Armory Historian came out in 2000. Anything in brown wrap marked newer than 2000 is restamped or you're looking at the wrong place for the date. Almost all the magazines are in Europe(most), Africa(2nd), South America(3rd), and in Oceania(4th).

    The Argentine stuff that was out there in the US pre-ban is now all gone. What is being sold as Argentine BM59E is just 1967 era service parts- I collected enough that are new in wrap and not disturbed to verify they're not Argentine E's. I have one real Argentine E kit and it is marked with USGI markings from 1940's and 1950's and has other stampings from P. Beretta and others from FMAP to indicate Argentine Navy. Per the UK Armed Forces after-conflict reports which were made into a documentary series, BM-59's were almost all on Naval ships, while there was a limited detachment SENT ON-LAND when there was an Argentine attempt to stop the UK's forward momentum in the Falklands. It was like a "Marine" detachment of Argentina's Navy. Argentina was recently under communist rule at that time and the standards of how they conducted themselves was not what it was pre-Communism.
    Last edited by geardoc; 26th October 2020 at 01:10 PM.

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  7. #15
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    Re: BM59 Build

    I’ve known Tim Shufflin for probably 15 years now; he “parked” and assembled my .30 US M1 Tanker for me; did an awesome job. My Tanker is why I have such a low regard for Springfield Armory “Not the Oldest Name” in US firearms. That honor goes to the U. S. Arsenal at Springfield, MA. I sent a barreled M1 receiver and a new Tanker length barrel to them and requested that they swap barrels for me. After 5-6 weeks I called to check on my gun; I was told it had been shipped back with no work done. When I ask why I was bluntly told “We don’t do Tanker builds.” I said that’s funny but I have a quote from Springfield that quoted a price to switch barrels. After basically being called a liar I said give me your e-mail address then I forwarded the customer service rep’s e-mail/quote. Funny I never received a reply. I will say that when I got my M1A and called then for a build date they sent me an owner’s manual and a lot of other useful info.

    Sorry for the rant.

    Here are my Tanker and my JRA BM-59:




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  9. #16
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    Re: BM59 Build

    Quote Originally Posted by cwo4uscgret View Post
    I’ve known Tim Shufflin for probably 15 years now; he “parked” and assembled my .30 US M1 Tanker for me; did an awesome job. My Tanker is why I have such a low regard for Springfield Armory “Not the Oldest Name” in US firearms. That honor goes to the U. S. Arsenal at Springfield, MA. I sent a barreled M1 receiver and a new Tanker length barrel to them and requested that they swap barrels for me. After 5-6 weeks I called to check on my gun; I was told it had been shipped back with no work done. When I ask why I was bluntly told “We don’t do Tanker builds.” I said that’s funny but I have a quote from Springfield that quoted a price to switch barrels. After basically being called a liar I said give me your e-mail address then I forwarded the customer service rep’s e-mail/quote. Funny I never received a reply. I will say that when I got my M1A and called then for a build date they sent me an owner’s manual and a lot of other useful info.

    Sorry for the rant.
    [/url]
    You are telling the gospel truth.

    Here is the deal:

    At one time during the early 1980's- SAI was rebuilding Garands. Then they got permission to do the "continuation" Garands starting at serial #7,000,000- except they are CAST RECEIVER BUILDS. The

    Around the same time Reese got a bunch of tooling and prints sent from Beretta as he licensed the BM-59. He got some broaches, he got a fixture and guide to make the correct bolt, he paid for a bunch of advertisements as articles to be done.

    In '89 thanks to some stuff Norinco did, Bush '41 banned the importation of foreign-made, semiautomatic rifles deemed not to have "a legitimate sporting use."

    That was the first sphincter pucker for Tom and both Bob's at SAI. They were importing EBO rifles from Hellenic, they were importing Imbels in 7.62x51 and 5.56x45 as SAR48 and SAR4800. SAI was also importing some Steyrs at one one point. Some Sauer "sniper" rifles made in Switzerland that GSA Santa Fe had imported previously.

    The the 1994 AWB happens. During this period, SAI does a Chapter 11, and they basically made it to where they burned some of their business partners that had supplied rifles sold as SAR's, but it also allowed SAI to do something else:

    You as a consumer were buying a "lifetime warranty" rifle from SAI. So the Barn's solution was to give everyone a nice new in box, cheap as possible M1A if you sent in an import needing repair, or even a Garand- as going forward in their Chapter 11 plan they intended on selling M1A's with 5rd magazines.

    So what happens is if you mention you have a BM-59 you get told "We don't rebarrel those"- SAI does still have barrels from what didn't completely sell under the Reese Surplus name.

    In addition SAI had sold a Garand, Anniversary Garand, and I forget if they called it T-26 or T-27, and that was their "Tanker Garand"

    So if it's a previous model SAI did, they will outright deny it, even though they have a price list people quote. That is one of the reasons they took down the email address and it says to call. They can't deny what is in writing- but they can say whatever on the phone and claim they misspoke.

    When I was buying my M1 receivers to build BM-59's with, I had a guy want $700 for a cast Garand receiver. He got his "anniversary receiver" back from SAI and a base model flexi-flyer synthetic stocked M1A for a rifle he'd paid $2k plus for. He wasn't even supposed to get the receiver back, most of the people I've spoken to, just got a letter that "SAI no longer services these rifles. In return for your rifle, please accept this M1A with lifetime warranty" and it is shipped to their FFL. If you try to get your Steyr, Hellenic EBO, or Imbel back, well, no chance.

    Some people will try to get it in writing or record their call and get them to admit they have parts. SAI will dissemble and just put you in a position: "Do you want this M1A or do you want nothing ? Because we can send you nothing. We re-organized."

    A lot of people have asked me why I have heat with SAI. The above is JUST ONE of my reasons.

    If you ask about having your "rifle with P/N substituted with M1A"- they may tell you they do a repair to get another off the streets, and send you a M1A which they have plenty of spares and a policy for.

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  11. #17
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    Re: BM59 Build

    They do the same thing with the Omega 1911 they imported from Germany. No longer in production and parts are very limited; Springfield says if you send it in for their "lifetime warranty repair" and they don't haver the parts they will say non-repairable and send you, at their choice, a replacement 1911. Gee imagine sending in a highly collectible gun for warranty work and they say sorry, can't fix it so here's a cheap replacement gun.

    Sorry, if I need gun work I'll find my own gunsmith to do the work!


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  13. #18
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    Re: BM59 Build

    I need a BM59 barrel in case anybody knows about one (the 19.3" Alpine barrel). I have a parts kit from Numrich and a CMP drill rifle as the donor, but no barrel.
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