Dwight's Gunleather

M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

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  • Michigander
    FNG
    • Dec 2020
    • 6

    M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

    Firstly, moderators, if you think that this thread should have been started elsewhere, feel free to move it. I'm new here and not familiar with the subtleties of this forum.

    Secondly, my reason for posting. I am currently in possession of a 22" Wolfe medium-standard weight 5R barrel. It was my intention to have it cut down to 20" and rethreaded. I initially believed that I could get away with having 5/8-24 threads put on it, thereby giving it all the flash hider / compensator options of the AR-10. Unfortunately, I discovered that M14 barrels are quite thin. This particular barrel measures at 0.609" at the 20" mark, too small for 5/8-20 threads. I believe the largest practical thread size for this barrel M15-1, a thread size that there is at least 1 muzzle device option for that I've found. But, the small barrel diameter brings about another question. What part of the barrel do AR-10 type flash hiders and muzzle brakes butt up against when tightened? There are only 2 spots where this can occur, between the bore and the threads at the muzzle, and between the outer surface and the threads behind the muzzle. The second option would not be possible if I used M15-1 threads as there would only be a roughly 0.009" surface for the muzzle device to tighten against. Unless I'm mistaken, most AR-10 type muzzle devices butt up against this part of the barrel, rather than the muzzle. I would like to shorten the barrel. 18.5" seems a bit short to me, and I don't believe Wolfe offers a 5R rifled 18.5 inch barrel. A 5R barrel is desirable since it should be easier to clean. Likewise, 22" seems a bit long, and I would prefer to have the muzzle device attached directly to the barrel, rather than attached to an adaptor that is then attached to the barrel. My intent is to eventually attach a QD suppressor to the rifle this barrel will go on, so my muzzle device options are a bit limited. This is also why I'm concerned with barrel length. I have no intentions of using this rifle as a vaulting pole. If any of you folks have attached a suppressor and/or a muzzle device to a cut-down M14 barrel, I would love to learn about what setup you decided to run with and what other options you discovered during your build.

    Edited for spelling & grammar.
    Last edited by Michigander; 16 December 2020, 08:40 PM.
  • nf1e
    Administrator
    • Mar 2011
    • 16185

    #2
    Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

    Welcome to the forum. Can't help you with a Wolfie barrel. I chose a Bula Defense Systems suppressor ready 16.5" for my latest build. It comes threaded 5/8 x 24 so attaching devices is a breeze.

    Bula ultra 5.jpgH&R Punisher 4.jpg
    Sgt USMC
    RVN 67-68 I Corps

    Comment

    • chief on one
      Platoon Sgt
      • Jan 2013
      • 1081

      #3
      Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

      Get you a BULA 19.25 inch barrel; and be done with all the other stuff.

      Comment

      • oodnoodn
        Machine Gunner
        • Jun 2020
        • 115

        #4
        Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

        Is your barrel big enough to support 9/16 x 24 thread? I got a YHM QD muzzle device in that size for my Bula 18" barrel. Don't know who else threads their adapters in that size though.

        Comment

        • Michigander
          FNG
          • Dec 2020
          • 6

          #5
          Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

          @ oodnoodn 9/16 x 24 will fit on the barrel, but I don't know if the barrel is big enough to support a muzzle device with that thread size. It depends on what part of the barrel YHM's muzzle devices butt up against. If it's against the muzzle itself, it'll probably work. If it's against the step behind the muzzle threads, probably not. Does your barrel have a thread adapter that mounts like a standard flash hider?

          Comment

          • oodnoodn
            Machine Gunner
            • Jun 2020
            • 115

            #6
            Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

            No, that Bula barrel is threaded in 9/16 x 24 for aftermarket muzzle devices, so a standard M14 flashhider won't fit. The YHM QD flashhider butts up against the slight shoulder at the back end of the threads, not at the muzzle end. Like pretty much any "normal" threaded barrel setup.

            Comment

            • NMC_EXP
              Platoon Sgt
              • May 2016
              • 1596

              #7
              Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

              First off, you do not want a break for your muzzle, you want a muzzle brake. That will save time with your web searches.

              Good luck with your search.
              “After all is said and done, successful rifle shooting on the range is nothing more than first finding a rifle and lot of ammunition which will do precisely the same thing shot after shot, and then developing the same skill in the rifleman.” ~ Capt. E. C. Crossman (The Book of the Springfield)

              Comment

              • Michigander
                FNG
                • Dec 2020
                • 6

                #8
                Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

                @oodnoodn Alright, that's interesting considering how small the shoulder is. About 0.023" is what I figure. How well would you say YHM's suppressors stack up against other brands? What's your POI shift when you mount it? My original plan was to go with one from Dead Air, but now that I know mounting will be an issue I'm not so sure. Regardless, I will add YHM to my list of options.

                @NMC_EXP Luckily I was in fact using the term "brake" in my searches. It was getting late when I started the thread, and I'm afraid my brain wasn't working at full capacity. My apologies for the spelling error.

                Comment

                • NMC_EXP
                  Platoon Sgt
                  • May 2016
                  • 1596

                  #9
                  Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

                  First off, you do not want a break for your muzzle, you want a muzzle brake. That will save time with your web searches.

                  Good luck with your search.
                  “After all is said and done, successful rifle shooting on the range is nothing more than first finding a rifle and lot of ammunition which will do precisely the same thing shot after shot, and then developing the same skill in the rifleman.” ~ Capt. E. C. Crossman (The Book of the Springfield)

                  Comment

                  • Michigander
                    FNG
                    • Dec 2020
                    • 6

                    #10
                    Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

                    Alright, so I've found out that SureFire makes flash hiders and compensators for the M14. This is good. SilencerCo used to make their ASR flash hider in .30 cal. with 9/16" x 24 threads, but it's currently not available on their website. Could be available elsewhere, though. Their compensator is available in .30 cal. with 9/16" x 24 threads.

                    Comment

                    • oodnoodn
                      Machine Gunner
                      • Jun 2020
                      • 115

                      #11
                      Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

                      Originally posted by Michigander
                      @oodnoodn How well would you say YHM's suppressors stack up against other brands?
                      My YHM 7.62 Phantom Ti QD is the only centerfire can I own so I can't give you an apples to apples comparison. I see a lot of other cans in use at the range I work at though, & I haven't seen another can yet that I would rather have. My can may be discontinued, but YHM still makes a 30cal Ti QD can that's "new & improved" & a couple bucks cheaper even.

                      Originally posted by Michigander
                      @oodnoodn What's your POI shift when you mount it?
                      The rifle in the pic (Bula XM21) exhibits a 13moa horizontal POI shift when the can is installed or removed. Yes, 13" @ 100yds, which is extreme. That same can on the other nine (or so) guns I put it on drops POI 0 to 2 moa, with each gun having its own specific POI drop. So there is something up with the XM21 that I just haven't figured out yet. The extreme POI shift isn't a baffle strike & the can's mounting appears to be centered & concentric. The rifle is as accurate muffled as it is unmuffled, so I'm wondering if the rifle has some weird harmonic or something (it's not bedded). This seems to be a fairly unique thing as no one else seems to have seen anything like this (without a baffle strike), so I'd treat this data point as an outlier to be discarded.

                      Now that all that is out of the way, the XM21 is my least favorite suppressed gun because of gas in the face. You can put a blank firing adapter's case deflector on a regular M14/M1A to deflect gas, but not so with an XM21 (no rear sight). I believe NF1E has a can that vents gas before it gets back to your face, he can address that.

                      Comment

                      • wrwindsor
                        Administrator
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 14645

                        #12
                        Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

                        If you're handy with Kydex and a heat gun, you can make your own gas deflector.

                        Another option is to use a 3D printer. I'm not there yet.

                        Comment

                        • Michigander
                          FNG
                          • Dec 2020
                          • 6

                          #13
                          Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

                          @oodnoodn That POI shift is something else. If I had to guess I'd say you're right about it being a harmonic issue, where the bullet exits the barrel at the the top of its cycle without the can and at the bottom with the can, but I'm certainly no expert on the matter. From what I understand the 0 - 2 MOA on your other guns is pretty good. It looks like their cans use a pretty solid mounting system.

                          @wrwindsor I've got an LRB M25 receiver I plan on mounting the barrel to, so I expect the scope mount to help deflect at least a bit of the gas. I'm contemplating machining a custom scope mount that would fully cover the opening on the left side of the receiver, but I'm not sure that would be worth the effort. It would also be quite weighty.

                          Comment

                          • wrwindsor
                            Administrator
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 14645

                            #14
                            Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

                            Originally posted by Michigander
                            @wrwindsor I've got an LRB M25 receiver I plan on mounting the barrel to, so I expect the scope mount to help deflect at least a bit of the gas. I'm contemplating machining a custom scope mount that would fully cover the opening on the left side of the receiver, but I'm not sure that would be worth the effort. It would also be quite weighty.
                            Yeah, weight would be a problem.

                            A Kydex or 3D-printed add-on (PLA, PETG, or ASA) would all be fairly lightweight. ASA could handle the heat better than PLA but the "puff" is a short-term pulse and may or may not be a problem.

                            Comment

                            • Michigander
                              FNG
                              • Dec 2020
                              • 6

                              #15
                              Re: M14 Flash Hider / Muzzle Break Options

                              Alright, I've decided on a SureFire SOCOM suppressor and either their muzzle brake or 3-prong flash hider with M14-specific threads, not quite sure on that yet. Supposedly SureFire's cans have less back pressure than other brands. We'll see. I'll have the barrel cut back to 20" and recontoured to USGI specs, minus the 3 slots that would typically orient the front sight. For anyone else considering suppressing an M14 with a 20-or-so inch barrel, according to oodnoodn 9/16" - 24 threads should work. This opens up quite a few avenues. You could also use a 19.25" Bula barrel, as someone suggested earlier in the thread. This would allow for a thread adapter in the form of a standard M14 sight block that could accept just about anything you wanted to put on it. If you want 5R rifling, though, as far as I know you're going to have to go with a cut-down Wolfe. You could completely re-machine the Wolfe barrel at 20 inches, but I suspect those 3 slots would be expensive to machine and don't intend to do that on my build.

                              @wrwindsor An aluminum mount/gas deflector is an option as well. Or even titanium, should I get ambitious!

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